How to drive increased CX adoption?

Janelle Mansfield interviews 3 top CX leaders from around the world about culture change and CX adoption.


Driving high adoption of your Customer Experience initiatives is a hard, multi-year, deliberate endeavor, not for the faint of heart! Listen to Katie Stabler, CCXP, Nick Lygo-Baker, CCXP and Olga Potaptseva, CCXP as they join Janelle in this candid conversation.


All 4 of them of authors of the best-selling series "Customer Experience", available on Amazon.com






Full transcript:


Janelle Mansfield

Hi everyone, this is Janelle here from Amplified CX. And today I'm so excited to have with me three authors from the best selling customer experience book series here today to talk about driving CX adoption throughout your organization. So to start, I have Katie Stabler. She is an expert in strategic cultural enhancements. And most interestingly, she's also been a master chef UK quarterfinalist. So her skills go far beyond just CX. Then we have Nick Lygo-Baker. He is both the CCXP and MRS Company Partner and he's designed some of the most innovative customer and employee engagement programs for the FTSE top 100 blue chip companies. And then we have Olga Potaptseva a little bit of a mouthful for me here from Georgia today. And she is a global customer experience leader with more than 17 years of experience in the telecom, financial services, insurance, retail, and travel industries. So welcome to all three of the panelists today. So this is just going to be a bit of a discussion sharing our thoughts and insights on some of the top questions that we get asked by our CX colleagues or by our clients. And I'm going to hand it over to Nick to start us off.

Nick Lygo-Baker

Hi, yeah. Hi, guys. So I just wanted to ask you what the most common barriers are to organizational adoption of six programs and yeah, what have you encountered through working with your clients?

Katie Stabler

It's a great question. I'll jump in if no one else wants it. And I think personally from experience working in and I'm going to give you an example of working in the contact center, but to the large 1500 at large I would say one of the biggest cultural barriers that I face working in a very small customer experience team in quite a naive customer experience environment was that there were few people strongly advocating for the need for customer experience. So you had a really great core team of people and some at senior level, who really got it really understood that customer experience wasn't as sexy and it was going to be the differentiator that drove the organization forward. But at a at executive level, there were very few advocates for that. So I think the biggest barrier that I faced in that particular organization was just the fact that you had so many different hierarchies, kind of mid level down, seem to get it. executive level up, it was a constant constant strive to prove the value of customer experience, which I know is something that I'm all CX practitioners face at some point.

Olga Potaptseva

I'd like to add to that I think Katie's point on, and I've done a survey with them 70 professionals across the globe. Recently, they have confirmed that 50% of them struggle with leadership buy in and culture change. So I think these are the biggest ones and a key instrument for them. Also key barrier is justifying value of CX and return on investment for CX initiatives.

Nick Lygo-Baker

Yeah, I think for me, it's there's a degree of understanding. CX is still a buzzword. It's a nice idea. It's a bit fluffy around the edges for lots of companies who are potentially quite traditional, their structures are fairly cemented. The job roles that they have are fairly traditional. They understand what they do and what they're expected to deliver. And customer experience often falls between the cracks so it's it doesn't fully set with marketing. It doesn't really sit with branding, or operations or in some cases HR because Because of that, there's a degree of a lack of ownership and that accountability and, or if somebody does own it, then they only own a percentage of what really they should own in order to truly deliver a great impact through customer experience. So in order to really embed it and make it work, you need to adopt a change in structure as well as a change in culture and process. And that's quite difficult. And that's that really is a CEO down thing to implement. It's very hard if you're a small isolated team of people preaching CX, if the environment around you isn't conducive to making those things happen. I think those barriers are probably the biggest ones to overcome. And then over time, small tweaks and changes to the way things are done, then enable CX to become more prominent and to embed themselves in organization.

Olga Potaptseva

I have been in a role where driving CX from the bottom has been my job and I can't really compare that It is a it's it can be done, but it's very hard.

Nick Lygo-Baker

Yeah. And I've experienced it where, even at CEO level that the understanding and the intention is there, people want to do the right thing. But because the organizational structure doesn't allow it, it makes it very difficult to implement and then things fall over, they lose momentum, and then they just get swept aside, because the next big bright thing comes along and they focus on that companies tend to jump around between different ideas. And sex isn't just the projects that once it's implemented, it's there. It's this is a way of doing things and a way of life. So yeah, that understanding is quite clearly a barrier. I think companies are starting to understand that they're developing the need to understand you know, what the customers are doing, what their employee is doing and how processes are affecting how they can deliver CX. I think those barriers are still there and it will take time just to break them down and keep refining. You know, how people do things, and then it slowly becomes a cultural change as well as a process change.

Janelle Mansfield

Right.

Katie Stabler

Now I just echo what Nick was saying there. I think you're right, because my experiences complete endgame. And it's the challenge of keeping that momentum going. And something you said that really struck a chord with me. And I think right at the beginning, you said, actually just having an understanding of customer experience. And I don't mean that rationally. But one of the first things I do in the customer experience training I deliver to any organization large any sector is, first of all affirm, what is their understanding of customer experience, because it is such a general term, it means so much to so many people. And it isn't necessarily a right or wrong interpretation. But to actually just make sure that you're all on the same page and that the level of customer experience understanding is across the board. And I think one of the things I most frequently get and I don't know if you guys experienced this is the confusion between customer experience and customer service. And that comes up all the time. And obviously customer service is just one very integral element of customer experience. But if mom's gone alone,

Olga Potaptseva

There is much confusion going on there. And what I always do within my CX implementation methodology is firstly define the problem. What are we talking about, we need to have this common ground. And as you would with any agile management principles, you need to be very clear, what are you striving to solve and what is going to be the expected outcome. And then I find it very productive with my clients to coach them to talk about customer experience in a business context. It needs to become part of the organizational DNA, and they have the right to sit at the table alongside finance, IT or marketing, operations and influence all these people, but they need to be able to deliver Messages in a way that are going to be listened to. It can't be just or will do all things for all people in the organization. It has a specific problem with a specific way to solve it and specific outcomes in terms of the business and customer benefits. Find works really well. And getting the leadership and also the qualifying

Nick Lygo-Baker

not only got one of mine,

Janelle Mansfield

We talked about barriers and you've kind of started to lead into the how to overcome those barriers. I'd love to get some other tips and tricks from Katie, and then Nick on, on how to overcome those barriers give some really practical and tangible advice to our listeners.

Katie Stabler

I would say a standout answer for me a lot is a shared initiative. So I think Nick mentioned this before, you know, working in silos, particularly from a customer experience perspective is just not conductive to organization development. And one of the things I found personally that worked really, really well is to have an initiative that brings in shareholders or stakeholders from multiple different elements of the business, and gets you all working on the same thing and gets you all being part of the process, being the voice of the process, and ultimately all seeing the outcome and the mutual benefit of that process. And it's a perfectly thank you very much to now, because the topic of judgment book I wrote is on customer experience recovery. And that was actually a process now implemented in the contact center with the challenges around customer experience culture. And it was a process which essentially, when something went significantly wrong for the customer, rather than just one department or one individual thinking of a solution and trying to fix it themselves with the potential ramifications would have. We actually all came together as a department so you would have people from finance city in the room, you'd have people from operational risk you have people from In the contact center floor, you have people from compliance because we were in a regulated organization. And together, we all worked on a customer centric solution to fix the issue. And you could see the cultural development that happened over the course of the 18 months. And that process is being developed, not just from a customer experience perspective, but from so many others from just the fact that people weren't scared to highlight issues. So operational risk, had some great thumbs up from that. And it was just a process that generally amalgamated so many different departments together, go to working on the same page for the same thing. And yeah, I think it was a game changer for the organization to share chairmanship, so I say go get working with the colleagues.

Olga Potaptseva

And to build on that in my article within the same chapter of the book, I give some advice on how to make it a shared objective. People may say, Yeah, sounds really nice, but you know, we have our own KPIs. And we're going to have to do that. So it is about fitting in. It's not creating an impression that you are there to have a revolution. It's saying, Yeah, let's do what you're doing. But I will help you focus what you do on the things that really, really matter to customers. And obviously, you need to have to provide evidence that it actually matters. But then it becomes very clear and simple to people that we are working towards the same agenda. I'm still allowed to do my own bit. I own it. I take the credit for it, but you are helping me as a CX professional. And I think that helpfulness is really quite important.

Nick Lygo-Baker

I'm building on both what Katie and Olga were saying I think the defining the problem is is one of the first pieces and getting everybody To understand what their objective is through the customer experience process. And I, I still find that interesting when we go through that with clients because it's either an operational process, or it's customer research, there's, but actually, it's a bit more than that. And once you start getting people to think beyond their traditional understanding of what customer experience is, you start to see the light bulbs going on. And you start unlocking thinking and creativity within those stakeholders. And it's building a case of saying I think there's a, those who are doing the jobs that those stakeholders oversee, is where the knowledge is. And it's important to bring that through to the foot into the boardroom. And making sure that your retail front end or your customer facing teams have a voice that comes through because they're the ones that because actually reading this thing. It's crazy. It stops me from helping a customer achieve this. It's hard work for me. customers don't like it yet. In a head office, you won't necessarily understand that that process is a complete challenge at the front end of the business. So it's taking all of those different pieces and mapping the the employee journey as well as the customer journey to help define where the issues might be. A lot of times, I don't think companies really understand what their problem might be that you're then trying to solve for. So that process in itself is really important to go through because any program that you you then Pauline, whether it's transformation of your customer service, and my chapter in the book was around evolving customer service to customer care, and essentially taking the business through a journey of discovery, and then rebuilding it in a way that was much more customer centric and employee centric to enable those processes to work. But it's more than that. It's about connecting data points, the touch points you have for your customers and starting to understand how they interact in order to know which ones to focus on to then improve the process around

Olga Potaptseva

Great, a great example that just came to mind to illustrate that when you said, you know, we need to involve the employees because they really know what's going on. I had a project with a UK bank, and there was a problem that customers were quite particular to that about the loan approval process is too too long. And nobody could understand because we have to go through compliance and all that and just takes what it takes. But how could our competitors deliver that three times quicker? And then we ask the employees through a journey and process mapping workshops, and it's emerged that we did a process unnecessarily three times. So that just went in a loop and no one really understood why we did it. There was no reason for that. Just by canceling that process, we reduced the loan processing time by two thirds.

Nick Lygo-Baker

Really simple and massively effective. And, you improve the engagement with both the customer who gets what they need much faster, and also those employees who are then having to go through the process to deal with customers who are frustrated, that disappears. So you end up with a much greater relationship with both your employee and your customer. And the output is clearly much better.

Olga Potaptseva

Yeah, the loan take up rate went up quite a bit.

Katie Stabler

Well, it's an oldie, but it isn't. I mean, customer journey mapping, I'm sure people have just heard that term bandied around so much. But the truth of the matter is, it's an amazing tool to gather insight. And I've personally never used journey mapping not found incredibly useful. And I get when you're talking about developing and building and overcoming barriers to cultural adoption of customer experience. I think that is an amazing tool because it opens up to so many elements of business and really brings up people to look at the customer experience in a different way. And just let use it okay. See things which you didn't anticipate you weren't looking for. The customer isn't telling you about it because they don't know that I can process. And I think, you know, customer journey mapping is just an oldie but a goodie. Lower investment in time and resource.

Janelle Mansfield

Okay. Thanks, guys. These are some really interesting insights. And Katie, just to kind of build on the journey mapping conversation, I wanted to chat a little bit about traps or pitfalls. And one of the ones I've come across, I don't know about you guys if you've come across this, but because there's these buzzwords like journey mapping or customer personas, I get people that call me up and they're like, hey, I want a journey map. But they haven't actually spent the time to define the problem that they're trying to solve for, or identifying the outcomes that they want to achieve or even thinking through what they want to do with the journey map or the persona once they've done that work. And so that's one of those pitfalls that I feel like it's it would be good to talk about is you have to have a plan. You have to know what you're going to do with it. The process, it's not about the deliverables. It's not about saying check, I did my journey map this year or this quarter, it's about identifying the insights and then having a plan to then actually address them. But what other pitfalls Have you guys come across?

Nick Lygo-Baker

I think just just building on what you're saying, Janelle, the, you have to start with purpose, what is the business? Therefore, what are you there to deliver? And what needs are you satisfying for your customers? That then enables you to say, okay, when we map our journey, we can then start to look at it in terms of what are the barriers to achieving what we've set out as our company purpose. So if we don't do that, and you're simply just mapping it to say, Okay, this is what we do. You then don't understand, okay, what can we change in order to improve our processes and make sure that that mapping process isn't just a picture that is taken at that point in time and then shoved in a drawer for the next four years, until the next person comes along? says, Hey, we should make the journey. Yeah. This is about taking a snapshot of what is happening now, understanding whether it then delivers on the business lead, and then reshaping it in order to meet that need better based on the tools that were available at that point of time. Of course, tools change, you know, technology changes, processes change, customer needs, customer engagement will change. And it's about staying close to that, so that you're constantly making little adjustments in order to stay current and stay relevant to your customers, but also to be able to deliver to that. So to Katie's point, yes, journey mapping is important. But it's not a picture that you just take once and then forget about it and stick it on the wall. It's a living breathing thing is the foundation of the understanding process that enables you to put better customer experiences through your organization, whether it's employee experience, customer experience, process, experience, etc. All of those come together. But it's a living, breathing thing that will evolve culture and that will improve process and business performance.

Katie Stabler

I have got a great example of exactly what you just said into reality. And so I was working on a project where retrospective customer journey mapping was an integral piece of what we're doing, and it was amazing, we were generating so much insight. It was it was unbelievable, actually how much insight was coming out of it, unfortunately, mostly negative. And there were a lot of small process developments and changes that needed to be implemented. But it will continue and just put in the pipeline. So every month, we continue to have these meetings with stakeholders, and all of these great insights were generated, but nothing was happening with them. And it was becoming incredibly frustrating to people who are carrying out the journey mapping the teams who were involved in it. And our CEDIA teams because they wouldn't see anything coming out of it. And what we kind of came down to is the fact that actually, it didn't matter how important the changes were. There were 101 of the things that stakeholders who own that part of the operation had to do. And they quite simply had to prioritize it. And it was going to get done at some point but it had to do in the pipeline. So what we started to do was turn around the way we actually did the customer journey mapping. And rather than going out there and looking not randomly, but almost randomly at processes and journeys, we actually went to the site. What is your biggest issue right now? What do you need to know about and we just kind of flip the lid around the ordering when he did those. And all of a sudden, because we were actually working on pieces of work, which they were working on too. And it was actually contributing to the direct projects that they were working on, work starting to actually generate outcomes rather than just sit in the pipeline for a length of time. So I think you chose the right you know, customer journey maps can just sit in a drawer and quit working with your audience. Make sure that you're pitching at the right level and aiming at the right things makes a difference.

Janelle Mansfield

Thank you, Katie. Olga, do you have any final words of wisdom for our CX colleagues around the world trying to drive CX adoption throughout their organizations?

Olga Potaptseva

I mean, we could be here for hours. I think speaking of other people's, not using tools appropriately is probably the biggest one and not just the journey maps, but voice of the customer. I have seen countless examples of organizations that start measuring NPS without any proper food, they just say, are scores that but they don't meet, meet that score. They don't even drive their business offer commendations. That's what NPS is meant to tell them. And they don't do it properly. They don't act on it, they just worry about a score. And that becomes a pretty pointless and very costly exercise. So for years to be effective in the organization, it needs to meet business purposes and those purposes need to be well defined. It's one of the tools and methodologies that supports the business that drives It Forward and that gives sustainable growth opportunities.

Janelle Mansfield

Great. All like I mean NPS is a whole can of worms that we could like dive into an entire other conversation. And I know it's super controversial in the CX world, especially with leaders outside of CX because of how they're compensated and other things like that. But anyways, thank you for those final thoughts, Olga. If you guys are interested in learning more about any of our guest speakers today, their contact information is in the description below. I also encourage you to take a look at either of the customer experience books, CX one or the customer experience two. Both are available on Amazon for your reading pleasure. And before we go, just one last plug please if you love this content, subscribe to this channel. Okay, thanks, everyone. Take care.

Meet the authors:

Katie Stabler: Katie is a customer experience specialist, dedicated to cultivating high-value customer experience through data, design and culture. Her work is driven by the principle “Make your bed, and then make their day!”, meaning get the basics right and then create those ‘wow’ moments! She has spent over a decade in experience design for the most financially vulnerable customers working within the finance industry for both the not for profit and commercial sector. Katie is now the managing director of CULTIVATE Customer Experience by Design, a customer experience consultancy supporting organisations to increase efficiencies and optimise profits with CX initiatives. www.cultivatecustomerexperience.com

Katie@cultivatecustomerexperience.com https://www.instagram.com/customerexperience_provocateur/ www.linkedin.com/in/katie-stabler-ccxp


Nick Lygo-Baker: Nick is a leading expert in operationalizing customer insight and was listed in the top 25 CX professionals listed by CX Magazine. Both a Certified Customer Experience Professional and a Certified Member of the Market Research Society, Nick has been helping brands measure and improve their customer experience for almost 20 years. Over the past decade he has held global leadership roles within some of the worlds’ top Customer Research organisations. Nick founded Paradigm CX Ltd in 2018, providing a virtual-CXO solution with hands on guidance for organisations looking to improve their Customer Experience. A millennial Retail graduate, Nick’s experience covers a broad range of B2C and B2B industries (including Retail, Hospitality, Financial Services, Automotive and Public Sector) designing some of the most innovative and engaging Voice of Customer, Mystery Shopping and Employee Feedback Solutions.

Connect with Nick via the following channels:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicklygobaker

Twitter: @CXParadigm

https://www.facebook.com/ParadigmCXLtd

https://www.paradigmcx.com/


Olga Potaptseva: Olga is a global customer experience leader. For over 17 years she's been leading telecom, financial services, insurance, retail and travel companies in their customer understanding and CX management. She has developed a unique Agile CX Implementation toolkit that helps her clients to be 3-4 times more effective in executing their CX initiatives. Olga is passionate about promoting CX best practice and industry standards through her role of the Executive Director at the Customer Institute, as a CX Awards judge and an author. She has been named amongst the Top-25 CX Influencers in 2019. www.eucustomerconsultancy.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/olga-potaptseva/

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